EPISODE 37
Open Source, Open Roads: The Hacker Bikepacker Story
What happens when a Spanish software developer who loves open-source technology and an Austrian biomedical scientist who didn’t always love bicycling decide to travel on second-hand grocery-getters from Europe to Central Asia? You get the wild, unpredictable, and heartwarming adventure of Hacker Bikepacker. In this episode, we catch up with Javi and Rebecca four months into their year-long expedition. They share incredible stories, from being questioned by armed soldiers in the middle of the night in the Kurdistan region of Iraq to enjoying the overwhelming hospitality of Iran, where they were so inundated with invitations they had to start turning them down. They also recount the challenges and breathtaking beauty of the Pamir Highway and share how they have found solutions to mechanical problems in the most unexpected places. The Hacker Bikepacker story proves that you don’t need the best equipment and fanciest bicycles to find joy on the open roads.
Episode Transcript
Javier: I’m still living a dream. I know it sounds like a weird topic but it’s like that. I can’t believe that I’m living this, and every time we have a problem, it’s like an opportunity to show ourselves that we can solve the problem, we can find the solution for me. Every time we have a problem, it’s really a chance to get better.
Gabriel: You just heard Javier Carrasco articulate his powerful and positive mindset, viewing every problem encountered not as a setback but as an opportunity. Javi and his partner Rebecca, who share their adventures under the Instagram handle Hacker Bikepacker, are four months into a one-year journey from Europe to Central Asia and beyond. Their willingness to take on challenges head-on has led them into a variety of unusual situations, ranging from the intimidating to the comical. They have been questioned in the middle of the night by armed soldiers in Iraq, spoken to the Tehran Mountaineering Club about their adventures, tackled the challenging terrain and stunning scenery of the Pamir Highway, and found solutions to their mechanical problems in the most unexpected places. For Javi and Rebecca, it’s all part of improving themselves and finding joy on the open roads.
Sandra: You’re listening to The Accidental Bicycle Tourist. In this podcast you’ll meet people from all walks of life and learn about their most memorable bike touring experiences. This is your host, Gabriel Aldaz.
Gabriel: Hello, cycle touring enthusiasts! Welcome to another episode of The Accidental Bicycle Tourist podcast. Every once in a while somebody starts to follow me on Instagram with a very intriguing handle. In this case, I’m talking about Hacker Bikepacker. Hacker Bikepacker’s colorful graphic depicts a bicyclist with a penguin getting a ride on the back of the bike. Based on that name, I’m thinking this might be a reference to the Linux operating system, but I’m not sure. We will find out on the episode. It turns out that Hacker Bikepacker is actually two people, a husband and wife team?
Rebecca: Yeah, well actually we are boyfriend and girlfriend, but while traveling we tell everyone that we are husband and wife, because in these countries it’s easier.
Javier: Yeah, they’re a bit traditional. They’re always happy when we say we are married.
Rebecca: And then we are happy too.
Gabriel: Okay, well that’s your little secret then. So Javier and Rebecca, thank you for being guests on The Accidental Bicycle Tourist podcast.
Javier: Thank you for inviting us. It’s our pleasure to be here.
Gabriel: So you belong to a select group of cyclists who tour with the flags of your home nations on your bicycles. Javier, I see that you’re from Spain, and Rebecca, you are from Austria. Is this a rebirth of the Habsburg Empire, this union?
Javier: Yeah, it is. By the way, the flags are not on the bike anymore, because we were worried about having some issues with the police in Iran. So we removed them. They’re still in one of the panniers, but I still need to find a stick to put them again on the bike.
Gabriel: Wow, so you were actually in Iran recently?
Javier: Yeah, it was like one month ago, a bit longer than that. And yeah, we heard so many stories about the police controlling everything, phones and laptops and everything. In the end, nothing happened. We crossed the border without any issues. But, just in case, we removed some things like the flags, some QR code I had on the bike as well, just to avoid problems.
Gabriel: Oh, wow. Well, I’m certainly interested in hearing more about your time in Iran. First of all, let’s find out where are you today?
Javier: So now we are in Karakol, just a small town in Kyrgyzstan. That will be probably the last place we will stay in Kyrgyzstan before continuing to Kazakhstan. We’ve also been to Karakul in Tajikistan. There are many places here with very similar names. So it’s very difficult for foreigners to remember all the names and to pronounce them properly.
Gabriel: Yeah, it sounds like it. If there’s a Karakol and a Karakul, then yeah, I can see how that’s confusing.
Javier: Yeah, yeah. When you look for passes or streets, it’s always the same name. So I don’t know, it’s very confusing.
Gabriel: Yeah, interesting. And so you’re crossing to Kazakhstan. What is your final destination? Do you have that set?
Javier: We don’t have a final destination, as such. Actually, we wanted to come to Central Asia, but we are here and we still have time. The thing is that we have one year to travel and we’ve been four months on the road. So we still have eight months. We’re already in Central Asia and we are looking for new destinations. Now we’re thinking about Kazakhstan, China, and Mongolia. But it’s not 100% sure.
Gabriel: Wow, you’re way ahead of schedule. That’s impressive.
Javier: Yes, we are. When you had like a deadline, you’re always kind of in a hurry because you know, every time you stay somewhere, you know you’re missing something in the future. So it’s a bit like not in a complete hurry, but just a little bit.
Gabriel: What was your starting point four months ago?
Rebecca: We started in the north of Italy, in Trieste. Actually, the first plan was to start from home, from the door. But we started in March and there was still winter. And there are quite some high passes we would have to cross and some mountains. And we didn’t want to spend a lot of time in winter, in the snow, and also not a lot of time in the area we know. So we thought we will skip this area, take a train to the north of Italy, and start exploring the places we don’t know.
Javier: Yeah, we live in Austria, close to the Swiss border. And this is why we know the Alps pretty well.
Gabriel: Okay, so you’re in Rebecca’s home area.
Javier: Yeah, same country. She’s from a different region. But yeah, I’m in no country, actually.
Gabriel: Right. And what part of Spain are you from?
Javier: I’m from Madrid. And it’s not a bad place. I mean, not from the big Madrid. It’s like a region also called Madrid, a town nearby. And it’s a nice place to live, but I love the mountains. And you don’t have so many mountains in the middle of Spain. This is why I moved to Austria, actually, because of the mountains. Not because of Rebecca, that came later. But because of the mountains.
Gabriel: Actually, it’s interesting, as you will notice, my name is Spanish.
Javier: Yes. I thought maybe you have some background, so I don’t know, Spanish or…
Gabriel: Yeah, I’m curious to find out what town you’re from, because I grew up in a small town outside of Madrid called Navalcarnero.
Javier: Okay. Well, I’m from Alcalá de Henares. It’s a bit bigger than Navalcarnero.
Gabriel: Alcalá de Henares is on the other side of Madrid.
Javier: Yeah, exactly.
Gabriel: Towards the east.
Javier: Yeah.
Gabriel: And it has a famous university.
Javier: Yes, yes. Yes, very famous. So actually, it’s a beautiful city, but it’s so near Madrid that no one knows about the Alcalá de Henares.
Gabriel: Well, even fewer people know about Navalcarnero.
Javier: Yeah, definitely. But you don’t have any university…
Gabriel: Not at all.
Javier: To be famous for. But now I moved to a very quiet area with small towns, so nothing to do with Madrid. Like, the city where we live has 50,000 people, and that’s the biggest city in the whole area.
Gabriel: Javi, you speak German by now.
Javier: I’ve been living for 10 years in Austria. I could speak some German before. I learned in Spain for a couple of years, and now I actually speak some kind of dialect, because in Austria there are many dialects, and Rebecca speaks a very strong dialect, and I’m, like, picking up words from her dialect. So yeah, we speak like… I would say more often in German than in Spanish. Rebecca is very fluent in Spanish as well. But yeah, I would say like maybe 60% German, 40% Spanish. Something like that.
Gabriel: Wow, okay, so you’re using both languages on and off?
Javier: Yes. So the thing is, when we wake up, the first one will say something, uses one of those two languages, and we stick to that language for the whole day.
Gabriel: For the whole day?
Javier: Yeah, more or less it was like that. Rebecca, you also learned Spanish.
Rebecca: Yeah, I learned it when I lived in Ecuador. Javi now teaches me the…
Gabriel: Oh, you were living in Ecuador?
Rebecca: Yeah, just for half a year, but then I came back with the Latino Spanish, and then Javi teaches me the real Spanish.
Gabriel: Oh, well actually that’s an interesting thing, because my wife learned Spanish in Colombia. When I met her, she spoke with a Colombian accent, and then through talking to her in Spanish, then she picked up Spain Spanish, and a lot of her friends were like, “Oh my gosh, he’s ruined your Spanish, and this is terrible.”
Rebecca: Yeah, same here.
Gabriel: Yeah, it’s so funny. Now back to your trip. You took the train, and you set off from Trieste in Italy, and then you crossed the Balkans on your way east, I guess.
Rebecca: Yes, we crossed all the Balkans, a bit on the coastline, a bit into Bosnia, then Montenegro, Albania, into Greece, and then we took a ferry from Athens to Fethiye in Turkey, crossed Turkey, then the northern, the Kurdish part of Iraq, Iran, and then we flew over to Tajikistan.
Gabriel: What are some of the interesting changes that you’ve noticed going by bicycle gradually east? You see this very interesting evolution from kind of western Europe to a more eastern culture, and so what are some of the things that you’ve noticed in the landscape or the people that has been evolving?
Javier: Yeah, I think it was more about the people. The big change, of course, was between Europe and Asia, like hospitality, like friendship, like, I don’t know, feeling welcome in the country, not just being a tourist. That’s a big difference between Europe and Asia. And within Europe, I would say, like, the countries where the majority of Muslims are usually more welcoming. Like Albania was really welcoming. So it felt like much better than the other countries nearby.
Gabriel: Oh, interesting. What is one example that you experienced in Albania? Anything specific come to mind?
Rebecca: When we entered Albania, the people greeted us, they were waving at us, and every day we got invited to a coffee or they brought us some Coke or they always asked if we needed help or something to eat. And this didn’t happen in Croatia, for example. There you are a tourist. And also the tourist season didn’t even start, so there were actually not a lot of people. So this was a big difference in Albania.
Gabriel: Well, Croatia has become so westernized and modern in recent times and they recently even adopted the euro as the currency, which only happened a couple of years ago. And you can see there’s been a huge increase of wealth in Croatia.
Javier: Yeah.
Gabriel: And with that comes also, okay, these are tourists and now there’s a lot of tourists.
Javier: Yeah, so they’re not so surprised that you’re bikepacking. Like in Albania, it was like a big thing. But in Croatia, like you’re just another tourist, another cyclist.
Gabriel: Right.
Javier: I mean, I don’t want people to think that Croatia is not a good place to cycle. It’s awesome, super beautiful. The islands are amazing, but you don’t get the feeling that you get, especially in Asia, with the locals and how welcoming they are.
Rebecca: The most welcoming people, it started in Turkey. Well, in Albania and then from Turkey onwards. And the further we got, the more welcoming people got. And we actually were surprised that it can get better and better with each and every country.
Gabriel: That’s a wonderful thing to have happen, that every country gets more welcoming.
Javier: It was incredible because when we reached, for example, Montenegro, people were friendlier done in Croatia and we were very happy. We were like, “Wow, they are so friendly.” And the next country was Albania. It was like even better and we reached Asia. It was like, we couldn’t believe that people could be so welcoming, so friendly.
Gabriel: Okay. I’m very curious about Iraq as well. Another country that has had so many problems over the years. What was your experience? You went through the northern part, which is more of the Kurdish area, you said?
Rebecca: Yes. It was a difficult experience, I would say, at least for me. It was the country were Javi and I had a very different experience. I didn’t feel very comfortable because we had some encounters with the military, with soldiers. They were heavy armed. I mean, nobody wanted to harm us or anything, but I just didn’t feel so comfortable. Then we had a very, very bad dog attack. I mean, nothing happened. Just my bag got bitten, but still it was not a very good encounter. Then I was a bit sick. For me, it was just too much of an adventure and I was just too far out of my comfort zone. I was pretty relieved when we left the country.
Javier: Yeah, for me, it was the opposite experience. This is an example of even traveling together, you can have really different experiences because for me, that was the real challenge, like the real adventure I was looking for and always finding solutions to the problems. And getting out of really difficult situations was for me something I was looking for during this trip.
Gabriel: What were some of the difficult situations you had to get out of? So far, Rebecca has mentioned, you know, military and a dog attack.
Javier: Yeah, we were close to the Turkish border. There’s a big conflict there and we camped in the middle of a very small town, Batifa is its name, and the military came in the middle of the night because they didn’t want tourists to be there at night, like, camping. They came like really heavy armored with AK-47s, not really like being, like, rude or anything, but telling us to go to the city we were before, which was like 40 kilometers away in the middle of the night. Rebecca was sick and we were like, “There’s no way we can do that.” I talked to them for, I don’t know, half an hour and I never felt like in danger or anything. And in the end, well, hospitality saved us again. One of the locals offered us to stay at his place for the night and then the next morning we would have to go back to the city close to the Turkish border. We were a bit cheeky and we said, “Well, all right, we will do that.” And in the end, we woke up a bit earlier than everyone else and we continued our way, yeah, towards Iran. By the next checkpoint, no one said anything and we could continue the trip. So this is one of the examples when we found solutions and we managed to continue our trip, even though it was like very challenging.
Gabriel: Definitely. And poor Rebecca, you had, what was it, food poisoning or just a cold?
Rebecca: Ah no, I had some throat infection, and actually I just needed one day of rest, but the nights and the days before we got hosted by families, which was very nice, but there you never have time to rest. And I just needed one day to rest and give my body some time. And I think that’s why the throat infection got a bit worse. But yeah, after one or two days of rest, it was okay. But when you are sick, everything is way more dramatic than it really is.
Gabriel: And you were sick when the military came in the night?
Rebecca: Yes, exactly.
Javier: Yeah, so it was really weird. Rebecca was in the tent, I was outside with four soldiers, discussing if I could stay or not or if we should go to the next city. Yeah, it was a bit weird situation. Like, I couldn’t believe that was happening in the middle of the night. But as I said, in the end, we achieved our goals and we could continue. So that’s why I think it was a good experience overall.
Gabriel: I can see both of your points. I can see how it might be too adventurous for some. But I do know, of course, Turkey has a big conflict with the Kurds. And I guess it was the Kurds who controlled the northern part of Iraq. So these were Kurdish soldiers?
Javier: Yeah, the thing is there used to be this group, PKK, but they stopped like a few weeks ago. So they don’t officially exist anymore, like an armored group. And we don’t know if that was PKK or was the official Kurdish army. We don’t know because they never told us who they are. And the thing is that when we went to the next official checkpoint, we were allowed to continue. So we don’t know if that’s the same group or not. They never told us. It was very dark. They just had a headlamp and we don’t know who they were. We just saw the AK-47s and yeah, we had to leave.
Gabriel: Interesting. Okay, I’m glad we talked about Iraq a bit. That’s very, very interesting.
Javier: And when we reached Iran, we just reached the top. It was like out of the chart.
Gabriel: What happened in Iran?
Rebecca: Well, people always said, oh, welcome to Iran. They were very happy to see us. And they also said they haven’t seen tourists in a while. And so we got invited every day for dinner to have something to eat. Everybody wanted us to stay at their place. So we got hosted every day if we wanted to. And if we were looking for a place to camp, people immediately said, come to my house. I have something for you. And once we wanted to stay in an abandoned house, and then just by coincidence, the owner came and said, “Well, no, you don’t have to stay here. I have a better place for you.” So he showed us a better place and he let us sleep there. But before he left, he made sure that we have something to eat. And he almost wanted to bring us dinner from his house where his mother cooked dinner, which was 20 kilometers away. But we could tell him that he doesn’t have to do it and that we are fine. And we have enough food, but he would have done it. And this is a perfect example of how hospitality works in Iran.
Javier: Yeah, we often had to decline offer it because we had already accepted some. It was like, I don’t know, like three times per day, people offering us a place to stay and food and dinner and everything. And you had to say, “No, thank you because I already said yes two hours ago.” Yeah, it’s like that. It’s crazy. I mean, people who have not been to Iran, they cannot imagine how welcoming those people are. Because people hear a lot about sanctions, about politics and everything. People have nothing to do with that over there. It’s like completely different.
Gabriel: Based on the calendar, you must have been there only a couple of weeks before the United States and Israel decided to bomb these different areas. So that’s crazy.
Rebecca: Yes, actually, we left probably one week before the war started. And we were so, so close to extend our visa because we wanted to visit more places in Iran. But somehow we didn’t extend it. And we were really lucky, because we just escaped the war.
Javier: Yeah, we stayed for one month, what we could with our visa. And we were about to extend it because we wanted to climb a mountain. And in the end, we climbed the mountain, the Mount Damavand, the highest mountain in Iran. And then we said, “OK, we don’t need to extend it.” And then we flew to the next country. And right after that, the war started.
Gabriel: Amazing. Yeah, I mean, you hear a lot about it in the news or whatever. But would you think you would have been affected directly by the war in terms of your ability to stay in the country?
Javier: It was completely unexpected. And actually, we didn’t know anything about the war. After like four or five days, because we went to Tajikistan, we went to the mountains, we have no internet. And then we didn’t know anything. And after a few days, when we got online again, we got a lot of messages from family, from friends asking if we were OK, if we were still in Iran? And we were like, “No, no, we are not even in Iran. We are in Tajikistan.” But we didn’t know anything about the war. So we were incredibly lucky.
Gabriel: Yeah, I wonder if you would have been affected had you been there. It’s not even clear, really.
Rebecca: Yes, I think we would have been affected, because we are in these WhatsApp groups. And we got some messages from other cyclists that some are being missed. Some had to leave the country, that the government thinks cyclists or tourists are spies. So probably we would have had a problem.
Gabriel: When you’re not in the country, it’s hard to know what’s going on. But OK, it sounds like some people who were cycling through may have had some problems. Maybe even somebody got questioned by the police or something. Who knows?
Javier: Yeah, some cyclists had to flee. They had to contact the embassies to leave the country, to cross the borders. So it was apparently really, really complicated, really tough. But for us, it was like, we didn’t know anything. We were in a remote valley in Tajikistan when that happens.
Gabriel: Wow. That worked out perfectly. Yes, very lucky. What happened then in Tajikistan?
Javier: So, well, we always wanted to come to the Pamirs. So actually it was the first big goal of this trip. Even though we don’t have a final destination, we always wanted to cycle the Pamir.
Gabriel: Highway M41, better known as the Pamir Highway, is a popular bicycle touring route that crosses the Pamir Mountains, connecting Dushanbe, the capital of Tajikistan, with Osh in Kyrgyzstan. The high point of the route is the 4,655-meter (or 15,270-foot) Ak-baital Pass, earning it the nickname “Roof of the World.” The highway, part of the old Silk Road network, was improved and partially paved by the Soviet Union in the 1930s. The harsh climate has taken its toll on the Pamir Highway, which is subject to landslides, avalanches, earthquakes, and of course, erosion.
Javier: When we came to Tajikistan, actually we experienced that it was the goal of many other people, not just us, because we didn’t meet any cyclists in Iraq, in Iran, in two months. And when we arrived in Tajikistan, we met a lot of cyclists every day. I mean a lot, like I don’t know, like seventeen, which was like much more than before. Many adventurers who were looking for the same goals like us. By crossing the Pamirs, visiting Tajikistan, coming to Kyrgyzstan, that is really the mecca of the bikepackers, I would say.
Gabriel: Yeah, there’s a lot of people on Instagram who post about their adventures in the Pamirs.
Rebecca: Well, the Pamirs are a very challenging part of our journey, I would say, because the roads are very challenging, are very demanding, they are in very bad conditions. But on the other hand, we have never had such spectacular views of the mountains, and we have never been in such remote areas. And we were for quite some time alone, out of civilization. And that’s why we also had to find solutions for problems, alone. And I think it was a wonderful time where we learned a lot about what we are able to achieve.
Gabriel: Well, I think maybe this is a great time to look back at how you even began this journey, because it sounds like the things that you’ve been doing in the last months are just amazing and incredible, and I want to just rewind to your regular lives and find out what you were doing before you undertook this trip. And then we can get back to more of the trip, which I’d still like to hear about. But so far, we have the clue of the handle, Hacker Bikepacker, we have the clue of the penguin. Okay, is the penguin representing the Linux operating system?
Javier: Yeah, exactly. So professionally, I’m a software developer, but in my free time, I also develop free and open source software. And basically, I’m working on the Linux, which is not an operating system. It’s a kernel, doesn’t matter. Let’s not get into technical details. It’s like some software that talks to the hardware, like the Windows, people would think, but open source and free software for everyone. Some parts of Linux were written by myself. Very humble, but some parts were written by myself. And I do that on a regular basis in my free time, just because I like it, because I like contributing. I like just talking to the rest of the community, interacting with them. So that’s just a thing on its own. So I’m trying to bring more open source and free software to the cycling community, because the cycling community is very aware of their freedom or their rights or their privacy. But when it comes to software, which they use every day with their phones, with their computers, they don’t care that much about it, mainly because they don’t know much about it. So I’m trying to raise some awareness, mostly failing, but I’m still trying.
Gabriel: Okay, well, I’m interested. So first of all, what is the difference between an operating system and a kernel?
Javier: Well, an operating system is a kernel plus some additional software that brings you the whole system. So the kernel is just the layer between the hardware and your application. Think about it like Android, for example, something like that. You have just this layer, and on top of that, you have applications like, like your browser, like your email client, all those things. They are not allowed to talk to the hardware directly, they talk to the kernel. And the kernel, in this case, for me, it’s Linux. That’s what I’m using on my daily basis.
Gabriel: Okay, so the operating system would then be Red Hat or something that would use the Linux kernel?
Javier: Yeah, for example. In the Linux world, they’re called distributions, like Ubuntu, Fedora. They bring you the Linux kernel plus many other applications on top of the kernel. This is what I care about, like telling people that you don’t need to buy that software, that there are free options that are built by the community, they’re not spying you, they’re not collecting your data, they’re just offering you something for free, just for you to enjoy.
Gabriel: That sounds good.
Javier: Yeah, and it’s not just Linux. Every time I meet a bikepacker, I talk to them about applications that are free, that are built by the community, so they don’t use the ones that you have to pay for with closed source. And that’s where I mostly fail, because people just care about the apps where they can find the best campsites, for example.
Gabriel: Well, here you have a platform to talk to some bikepackers. What specifically do you recommend?
Javier: So, for example, there’s a new app, it’s just one month old. It’s called Comaps, C-O-MAPS. And that’s just a copy of another very famous app called Organic Maps, where you can find open maps and all the information that people just upload for free for the community, not for a company that then will close that information under some license. So if you’re looking for an application to navigate offline, Comaps is built by the community, free and open source.
Gabriel: What kind of functionality does it have? Things like being able to plan a route?
Javier: Yeah, so that’s an app where you can download all the maps you want, it’s just not limited, like, because there are some apps where you can download one map or ten maps, and then you have to pay if you want to download more. You can download as many as you want, and then you can navigate offline, you can plan routes, you can get all the information that you get from OpenStreetMaps, which is the open source map that most applications use, but many applications, close their functionality under some license under some premium account. Comaps doesn’t do that.
Gabriel: Okay, yes, I know that OpenStreetMap is sort of the underlying mapping software.
Javier: Yeah, exactly.
Gabriel: Ah, okay, cool. Well, that’s one to check out. Very good.
Javier: Yeah, I’m glad I’m bringing you to my side.
Gabriel: Yeah, absolutely. Do you have another application that you would mention?
Javier: Well, for example, the web browser application is not an application or such. BeWelcome, for people who are looking for hosts. Like, there are so many other very well-known applications to look for accommodation for hosting, bewelcome.org is also free, open source, and you can find people to stay at their places or people to hang out with. So I would recommend that one. We have stayed to so many places for free with really nice people through BeWelcome. And when we get back to Europe to Austria, we will offer our place as well to stay for people who are on BeWelcome.
Gabriel: Oh, well, it’s very exciting to hear some alternative to Warmshowers. This is something that everybody mentions, but I had not heard of BeWelcome.
Javier: Yeah, it’s not so well known, but it’s getting bigger, like it’s increasing a lot. And I’m also telling everyone, use BeWelcome, use BeWelcome. Some people are using it because it’s useful. So that’s working a bit better than Linux and the rest of the stuff.
Gabriel: Linux, well, I mean…
Javier: Yeah, because it’s much easier.
Gabriel: Yeah, exactly. I thought, you know, it’s a pretty big commitment to make that change to Linux.
Javier: Yeah, well, remove all Microsoft apps and download their free open source equivalent. That’s collecting all your data because that’s giving you less freedom that you would get with other apps.
Gabriel: Okay, but if they just collect my data, then… I mean, isn’t everything collecting my data these days?
Javier: No, it’s not. So what I’m telling you is that there are options that are not collecting your data. You’re paying for apps that in the end are getting your data to even get more money out of it.
Gabriel: At that level, I understand. But for example, you’re on Instagram. Isn’t Instagram collecting your data?
Javier: Yeah, of course. But that’s the typical thing like you are within the system and how do you get to the people if you’re not in the system where people are? So that’s like, of course, I could just delete everything and get to the mountain and never talk to anyone again. But then my message would never reach anyone. So there are some, yeah, some compromise.
Gabriel: I hope you understand that now you’re in a philosophical gray zone, because you’re on YouTube, you’re on Instagram, but you’re telling me to delete Microsoft. So that’s…
Javier: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I’m trying to get you to the right way so we can delete everything.
Gabriel: Oh, I see. So if we get to a certain level, then we’ll be able to hit the delete button and be outside the system.
Javier: Exactly. We will use another app, free app, that will be like Instagram with five million users as well. But until until that point, I need Instagram to tell you times the same story.
Gabriel: It’s an ambitious plan. And I hope you will keep me posted. You’ll be like, “Hey, we can now finally do it. We can finally delete Instagram.”
Javier: That’s the plan, that’s the ultimate plan. As I said, I’m mostly failing. So I’m turning into an Instagrammer. I don’t know. I guess the system is winning.
Gabriel: And Rebecca, what is your background?
Rebecca: I’m a biomedical scientist. And I work in the laboratory, in pathology.
Gabriel: Okay. So…
Rebecca: It’s not as useful for this travel as Javi’s job.
Gabriel: Oh, come on. You never know when you have to analyze some samples.
Rebecca: Yeah, hopefully not.
Gabriel: Hopefully not.
Javier: At least she doesn’t annoy anyone with the same topics all the time.
Gabriel: Okay. And so it sounds like the two of you met in Austria. You had each your jobs. How did it come about that you went on this crazy trip? Took one year off. You’re in the middle of it. What was the, should I say, kernel, of this idea? When did it get started?
Rebecca: Well, actually, it was my idea. We were talking for some years that we want to take some time off. But we were always talking about like three months, some really cool travels. But we just never found something that would be worth to take this time off. And then I listened to some podcasts about bikepacking. And, you know, when you’re listening to one podcast or when you see something on Facebook or Insta, all of a sudden you are in this bikepacking bubble. And all the content is coming to you.
Gabriel: The algorithm.
Rebecca: Yes. And then I saw some other people doing it. And I got home from work and said, “Javi, sit down. Now I have an idea what we are going to do and take some time off.” And I told him that I want to go on a bikepacking trip. And that’s how it started.
Javier: Yeah, but all things said, the original plan, Rebecca’s plan, was to cycle for three months in Turkey. That was all. And we started to think, okay, Turkey. But Georgia would be great as well. But it’s not possible in three months. Maybe then five months. And then we continued, like looking at the map, going farther east. And we thought, well, is it impossible to do it in three months. Not in four, not in six. Let’s take a year. And this is how it started.
Gabriel: But Javi, what was your original reaction to Rebecca’s idea? Did you say, “Oh yeah, that sounds good. Let’s work on the details?”
Javier: Yeah. It was very positive. Because I really wanted to do something like, I didn’t know what, because we were thinking, because we were really hard-core hikers. We go almost every weekend to hiking the mountains in the Alps. And the first plan was to go to the Andes and climb some 6,000-meter peaks there. Spending like three, four months just climbing mountains. Something really special. And in the end, it turned to be bikepacking, which is also great, because we are hiking sometimes as well. So we are mixing both.
Gabriel: Yeah, it sounds like you bicycle to places where you can then hike to the top of various mountains.
Rebecca: Yes, definitely. Because we enjoy a lot the mountains, but when you are just cycling, you come close to the mountains, but you are never on top of a mountain. So that’s why we are also hiking sometimes.
Javier: Yeah, actually we’re hiking tomorrow. We will be off for three days, offline again. And this is where we are in Karakol, because this is a very famous hiking area. And we will go to some lakes and some passes. As I said, three days off with the tent, camping in the wildness.
Gabriel: Okay, but for some climbs, you need some technical equipment. Have you brought any technical equipment with you?
Javier: We have nothing with us. Just hiking poles, but you can always get stuff at the place. I mean, for example, when we climbed the Damavand Peak, we got some stuff from the mountaineering club in Tehran. We got an ice axe. We got a second backpack, because we only have one. And I could rent the boots near the mountain. So one of the camps. So I could rent the stuff. Most of it, we got it just from the club for free. And that was enough to climb the mountain. So of course, we cannot pack so much stuff.
Gabriel: These are the boots with the crampons.
Javier: We didn’t need crampons for that one, but we could have gotten. They were really willing to help us.
Gabriel: Awesome. Wow, the Tehran Mountaineering Club. Sounds like a Wes Anderson movie title, but they came in clutch. Cool.
Javier: Yeah, exactly. There’s a big club. We even gave a talk there. It was really funny.
Gabriel: Wow.
Javier: They didn’t understand anything because they couldn’t speak any English. But we had a guide translating, also mostly failing. They understood that we were cycling and we were from Europe somewhere. Yeah, it was enough.
Gabriel: That was enough on a one-hour talk. Hopefully you had some photos so they could at least see something.
Rebecca: Well, actually, we weren’t prepared for the talk because we just came to the club. Because they invited us that we come again to their meeting. So we came to the meeting and we weren’t prepared that we should talk about our travels. So yeah, we hadn’t had a presentation.
Javier: It was very, very improvised.
Gabriel: So you had no photos? Oh, goodness. So I just imagine you talking for 10 minutes, everyone listening politely and then somebody saying something, I guess in Farsi. It must have been a surreal experience.
Javier: Yeah, there was this guide translating and he was like translating half of the question, and so more or less, yeah, in the end you have to say, “Yeah, yeah, yes. Continue to the next question.”
Rebecca: The most important part were the photos. So everyone wanted a photo and they got the photos.
Gabriel: Oh, okay. All right. So you did a lot of selfies with them?
Javier: Yes.
Gabriel: Okay. Well, what a crazy experience. What are some of the other peaks that you have climbed on this trip?
Rebecca: Well, Mount Damavand was the most famous peak and then what else did we do?
Javier: Tochal Peak is another peak in Iran. Here in Kyrgyzstan, we’ve been hiking around the Lenin Peak. We didn’t go up the Lenin Peak, because it’s just the 7,000-meter peak, where you need like all the equipment, like serious equipment and a guide and everything and it costs a fortune. But to hike around there is really beautiful and worth it. So that’s something I always say to everyone who’s cycling the Pamirs, especially the Pamir Highway. Just at the end of the trip, go to the Lenin Peak area. You will enjoy it a lot. You can camp everywhere. There are many lakes, there are many mountains, passes, things for all levels and it’s really beautiful there.
Gabriel: You were in Tajikistan and then you crossed into Kyrgyzstan and the Lenin Peak is in Kyrgyzstan.
Javier: Yeah, so the Lenin Peak is in the border. We crossed the last pass, the highest pass to enter Kyrgyzstan, almost 4,300 meters. And from there, you’re not far away from the Lenin Peak base camp and the whole area. You can camp there. There are also yurts if you want to have like a more like, I don’t know, like typical experience in Kyrgyzstan. There are many options for all levels.
Gabriel: Sounds spectacular. From Lenin Peak, it seems like we’re soon reaching where you are now, in Karakol. You’ve spent, I guess, the last week just in Kyrgyzstan, crossing different parts of the country. Is that right?
Javier: Yeah, so we’ve been already like three weeks or so in Kyrgyzstan, crossing many passes because every time you want to visit something new in Kyrgyzstan, you have to cross remote valleys to climb huge passes, like over 3,000 meters. Everything is kind of remote. There are not good roads to reach almost any destination but the capital city and maybe one, two more cities. So we are always in remote areas, offline for four or five days. That’s very common here, but we are getting used to it. Like being offline and in remote places and our friends and family are also getting used to it. Like, not knowing, like, for days anything about us.
Gabriel: Yeah, and then afterwards you say you will go to Kazakhstan, is the next one. That’s a huge country.
Javier: Yeah, that’s a huge country. We don’t have time to visit the whole country. So we would just visit one corner near the city of Almaty, which is more or less near China because we’re thinking about visiting Mongolia. But you have to do that in the summer because it gets very, very cold in the autumn there. So we don’t have so much time before we reach Mongolia. We have to cross one region in China called Xinjiang, which is rather big. It will take us a very, very long time, like a few weeks. And we don’t have so much time if we want to cross a huge country like Mongolia.
Gabriel: Yeah, that’s the other thing is you say you have a lot of time left, but soon you’re going to run out of summer. It’s going to get cold.
Javier: Yeah, exactly. So we still have a lot of time, eight months, still for the trip, but not to visit Mongolia. To visit Mongolia, we have one and a half months, I would say. Mongolia actually was never on the list. We always wanted to go to China, to Pakistan, to the mountains again, because that’s what we love. But then it was difficult to continue the trip, because there was this conflict between Pakistan and India, so you cannot cross the border. We would have to fly again, and everything was getting, like, a bit artificial. So in the end, we changed plans and we are going to visit Mongolia, which is a country that maybe we would never visit if we wouldn’t cycle.
Gabriel: We’ve also heard great things about Mongolia as well, from a previous podcast guest. Giacomo Turco was bicycling in Mongolia and thought it was excellent.
Javier: Yeah, I’ve heard many good stories about Mongolia. I’m not so convinced 100%, because I love the mountains, and I know I will see some mountains in the west of the country, but the rest, I don’t know. I will see when I’m there.
Gabriel: Right. Mongolia is more known for the steppe, the vast grassy plains.
Javier: Yes, exactly. So sometimes you will cycle for many days without reaching any clear destination, just…
Gabriel: Yeah.
Javier: Cycling and cycling, not meeting anyone, and we have heard that we have to download as many podcasts as possible. I will download all your podcasts because you have many hours to hear them.
Gabriel: Yeah, awesome.
Javier: Yeah, so I will listen to every single podcast you have, from the very beginning until we are at the end of Mongolia.
Gabriel: Perfect. I was also aware that not only do you have an Instagram account, but you also have a YouTube channel, so can you tell a little bit about that?
Rebecca: Well, actually, this was Javi’s idea. I didn’t actually know that we are going to have a YouTube channel like this. So that’s probably why I’m not really like an active part of the first video, also because it was a lot for me, cycling and keeping up my energy. Then I had no energy left for doing some videos, so this was Javi’s part. Then I joined the game, and now I also enjoy making the videos, but editing and making the audios and releasing, it takes a lot of time. That’s why we are not really up to date with the videos. We are currently with the Turkey video, and it’s actually almost done, but we just don’t find time for the final touch. And we also do not have any equipment with us. We just have our phone and the headphones. That’s why the audio quality is probably sometimes bad, but we do our best.
Javier: Yeah, it’s getting better. Actually, I have to say, the channel was for the Linux part and for the free software. I failed. No one cares about that. We started posting videos about the trip as well. So this is why I had the channel before, and now we’re posting those videos about the trip. We are catching up slowly, but it’s mostly for friends and family. We just want to show what we are experiencing here and trying to motivate other people to go on an adventure like this. So it’s not like trying to get super famous or any money or anything like that. No, not at all. It’s just something that we want to do because it’s fun and just maybe to motivate someone, because some people have texted us, asking about the trip, how they could start. So it’s really, really good when you see that other people are getting motivated thanks to your adventures.
Gabriel: Definitely. That’s really rewarding. Since we’re on that topic, what advice can you give to people who might be looking to do something, maybe not even on that scale, because one year off, not everybody will be able to commit to it. But looking back on it and how you got started, what advice could you give to someone who wants to do something like it, but is hesitant?
Rebecca: I would say just do it!
Gabriel: That’s taken.
Rebecca: Don’t wait too long. Don’t plan too much, because the more time you have ahead of you for planning, it will get more complicated and there will be more questions and more things you are not sure about. So I would tell the people just do it, because it was my idea, but I was super scared at the end. We had a lot of time to plan and the last month was so hard for me. I just did not want to leave. I didn’t want to do this. I thought, what plan did I have here? But at the end, now I think, why was I scared? I mean, if you fail or if you don’t like it, which can also happen, you can always go back and then you can say you have tried it and now you know you don’t like it, or what could happen is that you love it and then you have a new adventure ahead.
Gabriel: Yeah, absolutely. Taking that first step, I guess, is the hardest one. Javi, what would you add to that?
Javier: So I totally agree and there’s never the perfect moment to leave. So just set one date, say, I’m leaving in three months, six months, and stick to the plan. There won’t be a perfect day for you. You will always think, I could have a better bike. I would need more equipment. No, just plan something and leave and then things will just come on the way. There will be many things that you plan that in the end didn’t work out, that maybe were wrong, but you will find some solutions on all the new plans. So just start going and just keep rolling.
Gabriel: Yeah, that makes sense. Speaking of that, what reactions did your friends and family have when they realized that this was happening, that you weren’t just talking about it, but that you were actually going to set off on this particular day? How did they react?
Rebecca: Well, I think they kind of expected it a bit, that some time we’re going on a big adventure. Some were surprised that it’s this kind of adventure, but they were very happy for us, I would say.
Gabriel: Oh, that’s good.
Javier: Yeah, we didn’t have any pushback from family and friends. They were happy because they saw that we were really, really into it. They were very motivated, very excited, and yeah, people were very happy for us.
Rebecca: And now they always can’t wait for a new entry in the Polarsteps app. I write every day something and everyone is always looking forward for a new entry to read it. So we have the super fans at home.
Gabriel: Okay, so there’s Instagram, there’s YouTube, and there’s also Polarsteps.
Rebecca: Yes, Polarsteps is just for us privately.
Gabriel: Okay, it’s private there. Because sometimes you can follow random people’s tracks on Polarsteps.
Rebecca: Ah, Yeah. No, in this case, no, because there I post a lot of photos. I just write down what I feel and some things should be private.
Gabriel: Absolutely. Well, it sounds like so far it’s been overwhelmingly positive, and that’s really great. I’d like you to think back, besides what you’ve already told me some of the challenges in Iraq, I’d like to hear about something that was difficult. Another time when you had to overcome a challenge or come up with solutions. What is another time in your trip that was a difficult situation? Can you think of one?
Javier: I have to say, I have never had like a very difficult situation for me. I’m still living a dream. I know it sounds like a weird topic, but it’s like that. I can’t believe that I’m living this, and every time we have a problem is like an opportunity to show ourselves that we can solve the problem, we can find the solution for me. Every time we have a problem, it’s really a chance to get better.
Gabriel: That’s good. But for example, have you had any mechanical issues?
Javier: Yeah, we have had many mechanical issues, actually. Not just one, not two, not three. Many mechanical issues, because we were cycling rather old bikes, very standard bikes. The ones you used to do the groceries, like nothing really special. It’s like the most basic bikes you could imagine and with very low-quality parts. And we have had many, many problems. Lately, I broke one of my pedals. We broke our rear racks. I broke one of my spokes. I have had many issues, but every time we have an issue, we found a solution, like, really quickly. That’s something you see all the time in Central Asia. People have to solve their problems on their own, because no one’s going to come and solve them for you, because there’s no one around. There’s a very small village. You have to solve the problems, and they’re used to it. So in DM, you always find a solution for your problems where you think there’s no solution, but you always find one. It’s like a miracle, but it’s all the time like that.
Gabriel: Okay. So I’d like to hear a little bit more, if you can, about one of these small miracles. These are always fun to hear about.
Javier: Yeah. For example, with the pedals, my pedals broke in the middle of nowhere – we were near a very small town, like I don’t know, like 100 people there – and that was a very small hardware store. And I thought maybe they could fix the pedal or maybe send someone to the next city, buy some pedals, and bring them back. It was like, I don’t know, like a three-square-meter store. Not more than that. Not a bike shop. And they said, “No, we don’t need to send anyone to the next city because we have pedals here.” I was like, “What? You have pedals here?” They said, “We have no other bike parts, just pedals. We have 12 pairs. They’re all for kids.” “What?” “We have them here. They cost two euros.” I was like, “No way. Let me see them.” They were like, yeah, super funny, blue, I don’t know, not good pedals. Mine were not much better, but those are, like, really funny. But they fit to my bike. So I bought them and now I’m cycling with them for a thousand kilometers now. And they’re still okay. They’re really not the perfect pedals. But it’s like, yeah, you found the solution. You would never think you would find there.
Gabriel: Did you buy all 12 pedals?
Rebecca: No, we just bought the one pair we needed.
Gabriel: Should have bought 12. Gotta have the spares. All right.
Javier: We couldn’t believe that they had pedals there. Really. They didn’t have no wrenches, no nothing, but they had pedals for kids. Yeah, perfect. And that’s something that really happens in Central Asia all the time.
Gabriel: That’s a wonderful story. I love it. It’s a very good example of showing how a solution presents itself in the most unexpected way.
Javier: Yeah. We were thinking that we would have to cycle for 200 kilometers with a broken pedal to the next city. And yet, yeah, the solution was in front of us, 30 meters away. Yeah. The same happened with the rear racks as well. They broke, like we fixed them with zip ties for a week. Just cycling with zip ties in the very remote valley in Tajikistan where there’s almost no one there, just a few shepherds. We reached the next city. There was no electricity. And with the generator, they could turn on some machines to make a new part for our rack. It took them forever, like hours, because the drill was not powerful enough for the steel. So it took them hours. In the end, they could make the holes. We got the new part for the rack, which is still there, and it’s working perfectly.
Gabriel: Oh, no. I can imagine this drill spinning at a few RPM, just slowly, slowly making a hole in the steel.
Javier: The generator was super loud, consuming a lot of petrol. It was like smoke everywhere. It was crazy. We couldn’t believe that that was happening. But again, the kind of miracles that happen in Central Asia all the time.
Gabriel: Oh, man.
Javier: Yeah. I guess our bikes are not the perfect ones for a magazine about beautiful bikes, now that they have those homemade parts and their children pedals and everything. But, they are taking us everywhere.
Gabriel: And they are very unique. So actually, speaking of the bikes, you say that they were bikes for groceries. I mean, how did you get these bikes? Were these bikes you already had before the trip?
Javier: So actually, my bike was found in a dumpster in Germany. Someone threw it away. My brother is a bike mechanic. He found the bike and he repaired some parts that were broken, not many. So it was more or less all right. We had to change the chain, some brake pads, not much. I was like, “Whoa, this bike is all right, to cycle to Central Asia.” And this is how I got my bike. So a zero-dollar bike, traveling around the world.
Gabriel: And Rebecca, your bike?
Rebecca: I found it on the internet I think, on eBay Kleinanzeigen. And it was a second-hand bike, which was repaired and it just works perfectly fine.
Gabriel: Great. So that was a 100-euro bike or that?
Rebecca: Yeah, I think it was not even 200 euros.
Javier: Some other guests just spent like one year preparing their bikes, using all the components and everything. We spent like zero time. Like it was like nothing at all.
Gabriel: Yeah, you’re at the other extreme of the spectrum.
Javier: Yeah, exactly. So is it fine if you want to spend a lot of time and money on your bike. If you have time and money and you love it, it’s great. It’s your option and maybe your hobby. But if you don’t care much about it, all bikes are fine to travel everywhere and we’re proof.
Gabriel: Yeah, that’s right. That’s important to mention. If you’re willing to deal with some of the mechanical issues that come up – because they will come up more often on a cheap bicycle, there’s no question about that – but if you’re willing to deal with it, and you too clearly are, then any bike can take you around the world.
Javier: Yeah, sure. I mean, fixing broken things, it’s much better than staying at home, thinking that you would love to do something, but you will never do it. So is much better fixing a bike than staying at home.
Gabriel: Yeah, that’s for sure.
Rebecca: Probably it is worth to mention that I hated cycling two years ago.
Gabriel: Wait a minute. What? Oh, no. Two years ago, you hated cycling?
Rebecca: I always hated cycling. Yes, I always hated it because I probably always had shitty bikes and they were just to get around in the city and I really never enjoyed it. But then Javi started to go to work every day by bike and I was impressed and I thought, if he can do it, I can do this also. So it was a bit of a challenge for me and I like this idea of getting to work without taking a car or a train and then I just bought a bike on, I think it was Facebook Marketplace, but it was a good one and I enjoyed it a lot more. My initial plan was also to go to work every single day, going to work and going home, but this would have been like 40 kilometers every day. And then I realized that even if it’s going to work, this means sports and so I couldn’t do it every day, but I tried to do it once a week and that’s how I came to road cycling. Then I bought another bike and then I bought a mountain bike and then my road bike got stolen and I bought another road bike and now I have a family of bikes at home in the garage. And now I enjoy it.
Gabriel: Wow, and all of this in the last two years.
Javier: Yeah, it’s a pity that I didn’t record that when she said, “I will never cycle a bike for longer than 10 kilometers, never in my life.” She said that like two years ago. Unfortunately, I didn’t record that because now we are in Kyrgyzstan after 6,000 kilometers and it would be great to hear that again.
Gabriel: The transcript for this episode is available on The Accidental Bicycle Tourist website. I welcome feedback and suggestions for this and other episodes. You’ll find a link to all contact information in the show notes. If you would like to rate or review the show, you can do that on your favorite podcast platform. You can also follow the podcast on Instagram. Thank you to Anna Lindenmeier for the cover artwork and to Timothy Shortell for the original music. This podcast would not be possible without continuous support from my wife, Sandra. And thank you so much for listening. I hope the episode will inspire you to get out and see where the road leads you.
Javier: Hello, hello. We couldn’t hear you very well. I think you talked about the penguin, right? The audio quality was very low.